Transferred Posts

This is a copy of our forum thread, which in retrospect I realize this is probably doing more to detract our goals and purpose of fish keeping. I don't really think, personally, discussion things like this among friends is a bad things and certainly if someone doesn't agree with what I think, you're probably not the only person in the world that would LOL. That's the great thing about our nation and culture is the right of expression and this freedom certainly is not supressed here. Feel free to talk about whatever you think or feel. This isn't an arguement or fight, just an exchange of thoughts and feelings.

jonv Administrator member is online Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 368 Karma: 9	2008 Election « Thread Started on Nov 4, 2008, 8:33pm » Well much to probably the surprise of many I see McCain out to an early lead though early doesn't mean much of anything when it comes down to the big picture. If any of the current projections are accurate, it looks like it's going to be pretty split down the middle here on the East Coast. I am not voting. I'll tell you why. First I think, and no offense to anyone at all in here, but too many Americans fixate highly on the Executive Office aka the President. I do not. It's in my view point, just a figure head is all. The real power in this country is possessed by Congress and to illustrate that, just examine what the two branches can do. The President simply signs bills that Congress writes into effect. Should Congress draft a bill they want and the President doesn't, Congress can in effect say screw you and put it into effect anyways. Regardless of the probability of this, just looking at that concept in itself, it's just a weak power the President has. He just says ok, let's do this, but can be overriden. This shouldn't be any mystery as Congress is otherwise known as the legislative branch. To me it's a mystery as I don't seem to understand why, if Congressmen, our representative, that we as the citizens put into office to write our laws as we wish, don't simply put into effect what they drafted if the President veto's it. They have that power and there must be some underlying political tool I just don't understand here. Secondly, Congress also is the body that possess the power to declare war too, not the President. All in all, the things I see Congress can do seems to be quite a bit more powerful then the President. After all, let's be realistic. Congress write up all those taxes and laws we must follow and the President signs off on them, yet the President gets all the flack when things go wrong. WHY??? If we all as citizens of the USA look at this, he/she only signed off on what Congress drafted up. Why do we fail to hold our Representatives and Senators accountable for putting into legisltation the laws and regulations we come to hate? Why do we put this all on the President? This seems pretty dumb to me. If Congress is writing this up, it seems that's the place to start if we want to make any changes, not the President. If we had more capable Congressmen that had the citizens best interest in mind, not those funding their campaign, (Oil, Car makers, Industries, etc) things probably wouldn't be so bad economically. Most anything the President wishes to impose, he's got to get approval from someone and in most cases, it's Congress. Now it seems to me, that even if the President and Congress are up to no good, our fail safe is supposed to be the Courts ruling on what's being done, but if we examine that even further, the President has the power to appoint the judges?? WTF here. Isn't that some sort of conflict of interest? That's why I don't vote. I've given 12 years of my life to defend this nation and way of life, I rather think that if I choose not to vote, I've rather earned that privlidge, to basically criticize how things are being done without voting. If I were to vote in this election however, I would vote McCain and here's why. I'd favor McCain over Obama, though I was very pleased to see Obama win the nomination over that lying dirt bag Shillary, because I feel at McCain's age and experience, he's better suited on Diplomacy and tackling foreign issues. Let's face it people. I'm not into this terrorist crap anymore since things seem to have tapered off on that. BUT China is a major issue here, and it appears Iran as well is going to be something we need to be concerned with. After that Reverend whoever debacle with Obama, I don't feel I can trust him to handle or deal with things in the people's best interest. He wouldn't have run out on that man if that man had just shut his pie hole and would have exploited the idiot for all he could have in the USA, not Black, but USA community. That shows me enough of Obama's character and that he's clearly politically motivated, maybe as much as anyone else that would run for office. I just don't trust the guy. McCain may be a Republican and I've tended to hold the same views as the typical "Republican party" in the past, but that's not the major factor here personally. I really don't give a flying you know what about this party or that party because in the end, no one that runs for said party really follows true to those ideals anyways. What I do give a damn about is someone that's going to try to do what's in the best interest of the nation as a whole, and not just those that have money. This whole tax plan and economy issue again, if you fall back onto what each branch is supposed to do, really doesn't = squat when it comes to the president anyways. He/She isn't going to be the one that will write up how things are done as it is, and if Congress has their own agenda, they can put into effect what THEY want and not the President anyways, so that aspect of the Presidential platform really didn't mean anything to me at all. The Candidate can promise whatever they want, it's going to be Congress that gets that done in the end anyways. Health care however does mean something to me and it really pisses me off to no end how all these things are now, (Special thank you to Schmuck Clinton for making things worse then they were) and how nations like Germany and England and hey Bill, Canada too, don't have the short commings our nation does. THAT has value and meaning to me. I'll relate this on a personal level. Back in 07, Jan, I had a very mild heart attack and our work had just changed over to these dumb ass HSA and FSA things that were supposed to lower all these deductibles and whatever. The only thing I got out of this great new plan was an education of how f'd up this whole system is. I practically earned an accounting degree from all the freaking G.D. mail I got in saying this was paid by who and how much and what was authorized and I'm sitting here like, hello you A holes, I just had a heart attack, are you f'ing people trying to give me another with all this f'ing paper work??? The wonderful handiwork of William "Cheat on my wife" Clinton. I fail to understand, as advanced as this nation is supposed to be, why crap like this goes on. What we all need, is someone that is above all this political inplay and monetary influence, and as Obama's age, I can't forsee him not falling influenced by all this. I trust McCain more because he is older and I feel wiser in terms of the bigger picture, and his dealings with being a POW in Vietnam make me feel, when something tough has to be done, he WILL get it done. I really don't like to comment or create something that detracts from our overall objective in this group/forum, fish keeping, but since election days only occur once every four years, I think I'd make an exception this time. Whoever wins, though I do hope for McCain, I can only hope that they do not fall prey to the influence of big money, will look out for the less fortunate of this nation, and do what's in the nations best interest, which I think is to strive for less economic barriers between the filthy rich, well off, rich, Shillary's popularized middle class, and those that are not making Latrell Spreewell's milllions and can't afford the 10,000 dollar fines because they have to feed their families. I really concern about that issue and with good reason. About 200 years ago, so this is in modern times, another nation had a huge gap in economic parady, and there was a revolution that resulted in a Monarch's head being cut off. What was it from Batman Begins? "Create enough hunger and everyone becomes a criminal?" I hate that we aid all these other nations, yet no leader in this nation has enough guts to stand up, clean up our streets, help the homeless and jobless and drug addicts and improve this nation as a whole. I hope whoever wins, does something about this. Link to Post - Back to Top 68.196.118.128
8 in the Corner Moderator member is offline Bozo Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 186 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Karma: 13 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #1 on Nov 4, 2008, 9:08pm » I hope this thread doesn't escalate, but I got to thinking about the 5 years McCain spent as a POW. Who knows what kind of mind games they played with him and what kind of things they implanted in his mind to do if he ever got into a position of power. He scares me. Bottom line, I guess, I have had enough of the Bush/Cheney policies and good old boy politics of big oil. Look where it has gotten us. I don't think we can stand another 4 years of voting with Bush/Cheney 90% of the time. Granted the president is just a figurehead, but he is also the one who meets with the heads of state of other countries, I think Obama presents a much more open and professional personality. BTW, If William "cheat on my wife" Clinton is a bad guy, what about John "cheated on his wife too" McCain? His current wife is his second top model in a row and she is the one he cheated on his first wife with. The first wife was disfigured in an auto accident while he was a POW. Link to Post - Back to Top 76.241.77.47 I have the world's largest collection of seashells. I keep it on all the beaches of the world...perhaps you've seen it.
jonv Administrator member is online Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 368 Karma: 9	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #2 on Nov 4, 2008, 9:24pm » I don't know about all that with McCain, John, but I am no fan of oil myself. I dislike Clinton very much as his downsizing of our military forces put us in a very poopty situation, and our ability to project and exert force for any level of meaning is getting too dependant upon technology. This might have been triggered by Reagan actually with the onset of Star Wars, but either way I saw first hand the devestation that Clinton's politics did to upstate NY with his cutbacks. The city my mom and dad live in, when they lost the Air Base up there back in like 92 or 93 I think it was, almost killed the entire city. What pisses me off even more, is the process used, just sucked. One of the panelists that were submitting the reccomendations for who'd get cut and kept here in the Northeast, was running for Governor of NJ and ironically, his base, McGuire AFB, which was about 10% less effecient then Plattsburgh AFB NY was, was saved and Plattsburg was dropped. Go figure. I am no fan of good ole boy politics either. I think it's a pile of crap, and stuff like this doesn't go on in our small group either. There are friends but there is also rules and policies etc....stuff like that I can personally say has no business with me. Maybe McCain has more skeletons in his closet then I knew of and I don't want to see anymore degradation of our nation either. I can't pull myself to see Obama doing that. I think he's playing a huge race card here that should have no place in the election, and I can't understand why age isn't even an issue I've heard much of. As much as one could "attack" McCain on his older age, the immaturity of Obama certainly has to be in play as well. You know I tell you, when that whole reverend whoever came up into play, we were in Indonesia when that happend. You just don't know the fixation other nations have on what goes on here. It was like ALL these people talked about for days. I still wouldn't vote for Obama no way I just don't trust the guy, but I do give him credit for stealing Shillary's thunder when that whole debacle took place. He'll still never convince me, no matter what he says publicly, that he was going to distance himself from that guy if he didn't act like the fool he is. I'll grant you this much in terms of appearence for the other nations, yes, I think Obama has a better look, but I refuse to tailor our look to appease other nations on that alone. I think McCain has the strength to confront China and Iran if needs be, and with the coal output China is doing, their surging economy, and Iran's refusal to stop Nuclear development, someone who's got the courage and strength to do something about this needs to be there. I truly believe, Obama doesn't have this and he's going to come back from a table with Iran, tell us, we should trust them, and give them a chance, and that China is our ally. I don't believe that for one second. I know at least speaking from Indonesia's point of view, the largest Islamic nation in terms of populace in the world, they are waiting and can't wait for Obama to win. They, and I'd suspect MANY others view this guy as one of their own. MAYBE this would help us in the long run, I dunno, but I do know that there are so many perverted Islamic believers out there that would love nothing more then to park a home made nuke in NY harbor and see what happens when they push the red button. I think they'll only be more encouraged to do so with Obama in play then McCain. I do respect your views no matter what though as always John. Link to Post - Back to Top 68.196.118.128
brenda Senior Member member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 358 Location: Aurora, CO Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #3 on Nov 4, 2008, 11:46pm » Nov 4, 2008, 9:08pm, 8 in the Corner wrote: I hope this thread doesn't escalate, but I got to thinking about the 5 years McCain spent as a POW. Who knows what kind of mind games they played with him and what kind of things they implanted in his mind to do if he ever got into a position of power. He scares me. Bottom line, I guess, I have had enough of the Bush/Cheney policies and good old boy politics of big oil. Look where it has gotten us. I don't think we can stand another 4 years of voting with Bush/Cheney 90% of the time. :' Granted the president is just a figurehead, but he is also the one who meets with the heads of state of other countries, I think Obama presents a much more open and professional personality. BTW, If William "cheat on my wife" Clinton is a bad guy, what about John "cheated on his wife too" McCain? His current wife is his second top model in a row and she is the one he cheated on his first wife with. The first wife was disfigured in an auto accident while he was a POW. All I can say is I'm withyou John8. I am neither Republican nor democrat I vote for who I think over will at least try their best for the people. We needed a change...if it had been a democrat president the last 8 yrs I would have voted republican. I do however like Obama and feel he really wants to help the american people, whether he is able to remains to be seen. « Last Edit: Nov 4, 2008, 11:50pm by brenda » Link to Post - Back to Top 71.208.125.54
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #4 on Nov 5, 2008, 12:04am » I have little to say at this point, but I am so disgusted I cannot speak much. I too have been left out to dry, I have been turned down for Food Stamps with an income at under $1400 for a family of 5 based on anti small business accounting procedures that Obama favors and "Joe the Plumber" brought out and the selfish attitude many have towards having what is not theirs. I have a surgery scheduled for Monday which will add to my many unpaid bills, for which the heightened anti small business climate will likely make even more dificult to pay off. I worry about Israel and the ignorance towards the danger we face. What worries me much is the rhetoric this guy uses is almost an exact match of the rhetoric another used to put me where I am and the looking the other way and ME, ME, Me attitude is why I am where I am now with rumors and BS still surrounding me and my family. Honestly this is just one more nail in the coffin as for my even bothering to give a damn in the world after all the bad news I have had just this week alone in my family and with this week being the anniversary of one of the worst days in my life and an an event last week eriely mirrored this. Also knowing how many hours I spend in prayer for my family, others, my daughter, and even those that have harmed us, along with this election, it really leaves me dry and faithless. I respect others views, so I hope not to irritate others, but here are two blogs that I vent with: My Opinions My Thoughts on life I likely will write a post on the second one when I understand more of my place in life. Carl « Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008, 2:40pm by Carl » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
goldenpuon Distinguished Member member is offline I'm gonna eat you!! Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 763 Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #5 on Nov 5, 2008, 6:23am » I'm really sorry to hear that Carl. I'm for Obama but I can sympathasize with those that aren't. Generally speaking, my mom is the one that really got me wanting Obama as our next President. She has on the news all the time and only says bad about McCain. While I see her point of view, I'm not dumb eitehr and know there's plenty of good about McCain and that my mom was just not exposing me to the better side of him. The only reasons I'm really not for McCain is for oil drilling (though I don't like high gas prices either but unlike us who can recover fast from spending money on gas, it takes the environment hundreds or more years to recover from some things, probably that too). I see the effect though for families with little money like my own. Another thing is abortion thing I am for that McCain is not. And last, I feel that we have done more harm than good going into other nations such as Iraq. We as well as the Iraqians there are probably suffering from it. Though it's more Sarah Palin that I am against on some of these things. If it wasn't for this I would be neutral or maybe even for McCain. Sorry Carl, I'm with you and your family on hoping that everything turns out ok. I wish you the best of luck on your surgery. Link to Post - Back to Top 69.216.115.144 Goldfish rock!!!
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #6 on Nov 5, 2008, 9:43am » I appreciate your sentiments Renee, but I do have to disagree with your points. I support MORE drilling as there is little evidence of harm to the environment in Alaska,also more production of Oil Shale and Nuclear power. Also I feel that when we pay more for our costs of living due to high oil prices, it is not the rich who suffer, it is the low income such as myself and my family (not to mention my business since I rarely can pass on the higher shipping costs). As to abortion I could not disagree more, although I am not for outlawing abortion, I definitely disagree with Obamas extreme view as to abortion and using it as a solution for every problem (he voted against the born alive legislation while an IL senator). During my wife's mental breakdown she attempted to have an abortion of my unborn son and those around her were more than happy to counsel her to this this. Thankfully me and my mother in law were able to stop this, and although he was born with many problems and later was diagnosed with autism (which resulted in many friends at the time abandoning us), I WOULD NOT GIVE MY SON UP FOR ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD, his life is precious to me. As for Iran, Obama ignorance as to the dangers of the world scares the he@# out of me and history has proved most of his statements wrong. And even if hie was right, I firmly disagree with standing by while evil runs rampant in the world whether it be Sadam, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Or Putin. I also disagree with the climate of envy and hatred of small business that is already bad, but will likely get worse under an Obama Presidency (just look at the dishonest anal probes of Joe the plumber just because he dared question the chosen one), but I am going to take a long look at my life over the next week, as I doubt this climate of hatred is worth while even trying any more. Finally Obama's large government view and Socialist control and support of even more government control is the last thing we need, especially his legislative support for such corrupt and evil agencies as Children's Services (which did there best to destroy my family when we needed help most) Carl « Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008, 9:50am by Carl » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
brenda Senior Member member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 358 Location: Aurora, CO Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #7 on Nov 5, 2008, 10:15am » I don't know guys...In all the research I had done Obama's plans will help the middle/lower class people way more then McCains. Even on small business he was not going to change anything except to ones that made over 250,000 and for healthcare employeed over 10 people. I really don't know who's right because everyone seems to have different info. I voted against ammendment 48 because it was also to outlaw abortion in the case of rape and incest...and I am sorry but the 15 yr old girl that was raped by her father and is now pregnant should have a choice. I am not for using abortion as a form of birth control but that is not what this ammendment was for. I was ok with McCain but if something were to happen to him (and he is old) we would be left with Palin and I think she is an IDIOT!!! I don't know Carl...I am sorry it is not the outcome you hoped for...I know you may want to smack me but try not to stress over the unknown. You may just be suprised. I would just hate for you to stress for the next couple months; you don't need that on top of everything else. « Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008, 10:16am by brenda » Link to Post - Back to Top 198.89.160.22
jonv Administrator member is online Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 368 Karma: 9	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #8 on Nov 5, 2008, 11:31am » I now fear for the future of this nation. To me, improving the economy is nice. I just like to remind all these people, the President himself actually doesn't do this, your congress men and woman do. The President merely signs it into effect, but the plan and leverage and all the wording and effects of whatever the plan is, is all drawn up by Congress, so again, I've never understood why Presidental candidates say they are going to do this or that. In truth, they DO very little more then sign a piece of paper and talk to people. I certainly understand where Carl has complaints as a business man, and I'd love to see more jobs, increased pay on jobs, and NOT CEO's and CFO's and all that, but increases in and for the people that actually do the work in a company, improved health care etc....all these monetary things are great and I don't complain if that gets done. I'll ask my Senators and Representatives to try to draft something that benefits me more the rich. By that, you really ought to look at a military pay scale sometime and look over the last 20 + years. When Congress approved a raise in all, where it was applied to across the ranks. Some of that might shock you. Anyways, if my Senators and Congressmen draft up something good for us less fortunate, I'll be happy, but know it wasn't this Obama whatever. What makes me worry is the people that think like those that planned out the WTC events and the Pentagon events are now only going to be more encouraged they can pull something like this off. Obama is too likely to give in to political pressure to withdraw our military forces out of Iraq, maybe that's due, but I worry for the message and sign this is going to send to the Islamic militants. I think this will only spur on Iran even more. I think they see this new President as a person they can b.s. and decieve until they complete their "nuclear plant" which doesn't take an Einstein to know that they are simply masking that as a Nuclear Weapons program, also known as the Korean claims of the same thing and when confronted they just went and made it anyways, told us to piss off, and we had to give in to avoid war. Why shouldn't Iran now do the same thing? We backed down on Korea, why shouldn't Iran expect this guy not to give them something as well? Congratulations to those that did vote for Obama. You did get your change. Again I was happy Obama was put up for choice then Clinton, but I have too many doubts about him and I do worry about what's going to happen in the future though. I don't think or believe for one second, when the really tough choices come up, he'll do whats good for all, and that we are at higher risk now of Terrorist activity. Link to Post - Back to Top 68.196.118.128
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #9 on Nov 5, 2008, 1:10pm » I like your points Jon, even in areas I may differ in my view. Brenda, first although I was angry last night, I wish to slap NO ONE (my rather garbled post speaks to that). Today I am just depressed. I do have to disagree with this statement: "In all the research I had done Obama's plans will help the middle/lower class people way more then McCain's. Even on small business he was not going to change anything except to ones that made over 250,000" First I strongly believe that actions speak volumes over words, especially scripted words and when you look at his history and unscripted words, this is doubtful in the case of Obama (especially when you look his and is staff's response to Joe the Plumber as well as other dissenters). As for the numbers, he has never been clear whether this is net or gross income; if gross my business that operates at a gross just under this with a profit margin of 1-2% would be screwed. Even if he stays with net income, when you run the numbers including his allowing current tax cuts to expire in 2010, even persons making $50,000 with see increases. He also plans a 60% increase in capital gains tax which affects ALL businesses, both large and small as well as ANYONE with a retirement plan that invests in Mutual Funds that invest (which is most). I will also point out that when I have applied for Food Stamps (Federal) I was turned down based on gross income not net income and the my appeal, the lady told me "that maybe I should not have a small business". As for Sarah Palin, I also disagree with her being an idiot, this was manufactured by the morally corrupt media. I have found much of what she has done in life as standing up against those who choose to look the other way; in fact she is the main reason for my support for McCain as a candidate as he was my second to last choice of Republican (Huckabee was my last choice, Romney and Guliani were my first two). As well, I still have found what he done and said when unscripted very worrisome, since my core belief is to judge by actions other than scripted words or rumors/lies. If I did not, I would be quite the hypocrite since it is this that has destroyed my family. Finally what worries me most is that our family's stalker has made statements that almost exactly mirror Obama and just his last correspondence stated this: "When Obama is President you will get what is coming to you". The problem is too many view others by what they see, such as a couple friends that came over to our house two weeks ago and told my kids that their parents support Obama as he will give them money. When we asked them why they thought this, they answered that their parents told them we were rich because we had our own business and always were taking care of kids in the neighborhood by feeding them and more. I have ALWAYS tried to care of others whether I had the money to do so or not, yet this has ALWAYS been looked at through this prism. This is exactly the same statement the monster that destroyed us told my wife during the affair. Carl « Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008, 1:12pm by Carl » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
brenda Senior Member member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 358 Location: Aurora, CO Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #10 on Nov 5, 2008, 1:57pm » At this point whats done is done and all any of us can hope for is that all will work out well. Yes, I did support Obama but we still don't know if he is just talk, that remains to be seen. I hope he proves your fears wrong. Like I said...all we can do is wait and see. Link to Post - Back to Top 198.89.160.22
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #11 on Nov 5, 2008, 2:38pm » Nov 5, 2008, 1:57pm, brenda wrote: At this point whats done is done and all any of us can hope for is that all will work out well. Yes, I did support Obama but we still don't know if he is just talk, that remains to be seen. I hope he proves your fears wrong. Like I said...all we can do is wait and see. With this point I can certainly agree! However I will plan my life otherwise in the coming weeks. Carl Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
brenda Senior Member member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 358 Location: Aurora, CO Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #12 on Nov 5, 2008, 3:22pm » I hope you will still join us here...It isn't the same when your gone!!! Link to Post - Back to Top 198.89.160.22
jonv Administrator member is online Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 368 Karma: 9	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #13 on Nov 5, 2008, 3:38pm » On the food stamps issue Carl, that sounds very much to me like the flaws in Oregon laws, because unless I am wrong, these are all state run programs? Maybe a move to a different state is what's in order, just keep in mind, over here on the East Coast, there's a whole pile of these Obama fans ha ha. What ya gonna do you know? Heck I was a Boston Red Sox fan living in Queens NY, I've been in worse situations lol. I happen to think, just my thoughts, that this Palin lady isn't really much of an idiot, but McCain probably could have picked a better choice to help him not lose by that much. I think the Democratic party could have run Kermit the Frog and Kermit would have won simply because most people are basing their logic on hatred of Bush and the Republican party, NOT so much about what each person is going to do. I'd tend to think the younger generations would follow that as I've seen strong points made here by John and Brenda that don't indicate it was all that much about Bush. I am convinced strongly however, this played a huge role in this election, which I find sad. I also think a major issue for McCain taking her, as he said, she was an outsider to the bs that goes on in Washington which on that logic I find no fault. I think though, he tried to play up the woman factor by taking her and that was a bit of a turn off for me. To me, it shouldn't matter what gender or race, but more of what have you done. I can say for a fact having lived in NY many many years, that's why I despise Clinton. If we look at NY state as a whole, and not just focus on NYC which is less then 1% of 1% of the volume of NY itself, she hasn't done SQUAT for the State in as matter of fact, the upstate region of NY, the 99% of the state in terms of land, is worse off then it was before she took office. Not so much of woman hating, but she's a pure dirt bag and a liar. Anyways not much of a damn thing can be done now anyways. Just to support my whole point that this election was more like a sham really as the whole world is so happy and the hypocritical French talking about now American can re-become the new world again, I laugh much thinking how they really set an example of world opinion taking all that oil from Iraq when UN sanctions were on them. Way to go France!!! Help help, the Germans are comming, help America, twice in the last century, and as soon as they don't need us, hump us publicly in the world view. Nice allies we keep. So again, this whole thing wasn't truly about change I mean it was, but it was more or less about the disapproval of Bush and the fact McCain is in the Republican party. I think people just see Republican as equal to Bush. That harasser the more I hear about this Carl, the more I feel like going out there and teaching that punk a little of his own medicine. Stake out in the woods, well concealed, give him some calls and screw with him, maybe slash his tires up etc.. Look I know the good Lord say turn the other cheek, but still, after years of being in our armed forces, being passive and me aren't very linked. Link to Post - Back to Top 68.196.118.128
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #14 on Nov 5, 2008, 4:09pm » Quote: I hope you will still join us here...It isn't the same when your gone!!! Thank you for that sentiment! My plans are whether to continue to "fight" for my business, my family, to continue helping everyone who shows up at my door; or whether just put the family in our camper and live somewhere in the woods of Wyoming or Utah. 14 hour work days are a little hard to take when sand is constantly being kicked in your face. Quote: That harasser the more I hear about this Carl, the more I feel like going out there and teaching that punk a little of his own medicine. Stake out in the woods, well concealed, give him some calls and screw with him, maybe slash his tires up etc.. Look I know the good Lord say turn the other cheek, but still, after years of being in our armed forces, being passive and me aren't very linked. I tend to agree with this now, however while still in LA my neighbor (who in his earlier days ran with a black gang) actually offered to "make him disappear", but I turned him down thinking this is for God to judge. I agree with many of your points and especially that the vote for Obama was a vote against Bush which was sad since he was NOT on the ballot and since many of Bush's positives have gone un-noticed by the corrupt media. However his negatives got constant media coverage from his stubborness, to his total lack of ability to get his message out in a positive way, to his (as well as Kennedy, McCain and others) support of amnesty for illegals, to his acting more like a socialist (not a republican) in adding to the size of Government. Although the people of France may still have issues, Nicolas Sarkozy the new president is very pro America and even came out in strong favor of McCain. Here is an awesome speech from Nicolas Sarkozy a year ago: http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/video_sarkozys_speech_before_congress/ Carl

goldenpuon Distinguished Member member is offline I'm gonna eat you!! Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 763 Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #15 on Nov 5, 2008, 5:31pm » I agree that you have very good points Carl. When it comes to abortion, I don't really think people should have it if they're already married and accidently have a baby. I'm for it in the fact that a lot of girls are raped by other kids or family members. A girl under 14 getting pregnant is a big possability if they're raped and I've even heard of it happening to 9 year old's in extreme cases. However, kids that choose to have sex (like many at school) with other kids and end up pregnant that way should be held fully responsible. It was them to decided on it when they knew the consquences. Sadly though, also is common, boys take advantage of girls and force them into it. And the boy can just try to walk away and leav the girl to deal with it which I think is very unfair. Two girls, (1 I knew) had babies this summer from "doing it" with kids around the neighborhood (I'm pretty sure it was by choice) and I'm glad that they didn't get abortions. Even though it can throw out their plans for a kid's good education if their parents don't look after their babies, those that choose to take the risk of getting pregnant really should not have abortions and should not throw a life out based on their own mistakes. I guess when it comes to abortions, my opinion on if it should be done really depends on the situation. For oil drilling, I have heard fopr a long time that it hurt the environment, I'm not sure who is right on this one. I've never heard anything about Obama hurting businesses and I really hope that it does not turn out that way. As for everyone choosing Obama over McCain, I totally agree that most of the votes came out of fear of not having another Bush (not that McCain would be, he is different like every person is. When a person is Democrat or Republican in no way says who they are. Everyone is an individula and I'd definitely say McCain would do better than Bush). « Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008, 5:34pm by goldenpuon » Link to Post - Back to Top 69.216.115.144 Goldfish rock!!!
bikeguy33 Administrator member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 357 Karma: 13 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #16 on Nov 5, 2008, 6:08pm » I know being the neighbor to the north, i don`t have much right to comment here...but the people i spoke to of this election were very scared of mccain getting in. here in canada he is kind of viewed as a war monger and we all know....we are your lil brother. what the states deals with directly effects us. this election was big news here, and in my humble opinion, Obama is the lesser of the 2 evils. Link to Post - Back to Top 68.145.82.13
jonv Administrator member is online Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 368 Karma: 9	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #17 on Nov 5, 2008, 6:21pm » I think it'll be time to get really worried Bill when this Obama character has to confront and deal with Iran and he's going to fail miserably. Start digging your shelter as soon as Iran completes it's nuclear weapon. The whole middle east is unstable and I am very very scared because I don't trust Obama has what it takes to deal with this. The whole world saw Bush have to cave in on Korea to put that to an end, so I can't see how this is going to help a much weaker militarily experienced Obama that grew up in an Islamic nation. Chit at this rate I am seriously considering saving up every dollar Obama thinks he's going to get for us to move to Colorado or Wyoming so I can build a shelter in the mountains because we're going to need it with this guy in charge. McCain may not be an economic genious but as I said anyways, Congress is the ones that write up the details of what's going to be done anyways, he's just going to sign the piece of paper and that's about it. If economics were a TRUE issue of this whole thing as well, why did Ross Perot fail to win back in 92? Who better can you get then a billionaire if the economy is what the whole matter is about? No, I say again, the economy is just a mask for people hating on Bush is all this election was. Link to Post - Back to Top 68.196.118.128
babygeige Full Member member is online Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 130 Karma: 3 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #18 on Nov 5, 2008, 6:36pm » All I can say is that I am extremely disappointed and disgusted that people are too stupid to think for themselves and just go out there and vote for the opposite party of Bush (even though the economic crisis is not his fault), and for whoever the extremely biased news media tells them to. And I agree with Jon, Obama is not going to be able to deal with Iran and other countries like that. I don't think it'll take anyone long at all to "test" him and he doesn't seem like he has the guts to stand up for the US. « Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008, 6:40pm by babygeige » Link to Post - Back to Top 75.88.156.48
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #19 on Nov 5, 2008, 6:46pm » Bill, I have to humbly disagree as to the lesser of two evils, Obama in fact has many traits of the Biblical Anti-Christ (not that I am saying he is) Also with Obama you get his wife Michelle who if this was the the "Land of Oz", she would be the wicked witch of the East while Hillary Clinton would be Glenda the Witch of the North (and I say this not because Hillary is a nice person, but to make a point as to what an out of control bit@! Michelle Obama is). Changing her quote "For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country" to this: For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m not Proud of my country" Jon, I never answered your comment as to food stamps; I have spent months fighting with these evil scum, and what I found out during this time is that the States administer the program but the rules are Federal. Carl Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #20 on Nov 5, 2008, 7:09pm » Quote: just go out there and vote for the opposite party of Bush (even though the economic crisis is not his fault) I agree as to the economic problems, it does not take an economic degree to know that the problems were caused by lending rules and forced credit lending to persons who had little intention of paying this back. Persons such as Barney Frank had his finger prints all over this. This si not to say that there was greed on the part of these investors, however many of these persons were friends with Barney Frank and others of his ilk, not Bush. AIG was a major contributor to the Democratic Party. My concern on a personal level is that surface judgments without knowing facts will increase under this political environment. I know how I personally have always brought persons under my roof regardless of the cr*! going on in my life. For instance at the height of the issues of the affair and my daughter, I let the family of an employee (and her 4 kids) live with us for several months (due to no place to live and other issues) and many thought my intentions were less than honorable and that I was not taking care of my family, neither of which was true. I can go on and on right up to last week (from helping a man that made a mistake in his life that resulted in a conviction, to how many will simply open up to me for reasons I do not even know [I was asked by a girls grandmother to intervene in a family crisis as "I was the only person she would talk to"]), but all I can say is I am worried that this will get vastly worse now. Sorry, to rant off subject, but this and many other events of the week have just got me to a point I cannot keep it in anymore. Carl Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
goldenpuon Distinguished Member member is offline I'm gonna eat you!! Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 763 Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #21 on Nov 5, 2008, 7:50pm » I tyoo have a tendency to give and give and give. I honestly don't care if it doesn't effect my life such as helping a friend but when people don't show any appreciation or I do something for them and they just ignore me after that, then I get upset. Unfortuantely, I tend to keep it to myself. Howeevr, I recently met two very nice girls at school named Christine and Donna who I'm pretty confident are good friends and will not ingore m like basically everyone else. They told me to stand up for myself. ...Back to the real topic of this thread, sometime I feel like my mom is trying to force me to think a certiain way. Like mnentioning nothing but good about Obama and critisizing McCain. While I am for Obama anyway (hopefully I was not persuaded overly by her), I feel like I am missing the bigger picture about McCain and also bad traits about Obama as we know everyone has them. I think it was probabkly when my mom mentioned that Palin was against the environement and wanted shooting to be done on more wolves and deer, that got to me plus when my mom siad that McCain was trying to scare people about Obama's Muslim background and that Obama was doing nothing wrong. Again, I felt like I was not being given the full picture. Kids at school have mostly been for Obama though some kids have been joking about him being a terrorist and not voting for him out of worry of assassination. Whoever people chose, I hope that looked at the whole picture and tried to get as much information as possible and not justing getting news off one channel or from the media. People should also try not to fear or make assumptions based on previous experiences that have nothing to do with the current presidental candidates. Whiel that is hard, I feel like more people should be doing that. « Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008, 7:51pm by goldenpuon » Link to Post - Back to Top 69.216.115.144 Goldfish rock!!!
brenda Senior Member member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 358 Location: Aurora, CO Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #22 on Nov 5, 2008, 7:54pm » I have to agree with Bill here in the fact that McCain scares me. I think Obama will actually do great when it come to foreign affairs. Besides, just like everyone is saying they don't have the final say it is congress that makes most decisions...it is the same with foreign affairs, they have advisors and as long as he has good advisors he'll be great. Look what advisors did to Bush...They obviously weren't so good. McCain scared me in the fact as Bill said he is a war monger. Yes, we need someone to stand up for the US but we also need someone who is not going to get us killed. Link to Post - Back to Top 71.208.144.16
bikeguy33 Administrator member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 357 Karma: 13 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #23 on Nov 5, 2008, 8:01pm » I bet when this topic was started.....this huge argument wasnt intended. but i do have to say.....having an opinion in agreement or disagreement of others is a great thing. it shows a very creative and intelligent thought process. sounds like you all really care about your country alot to be so passionate. congratulations on that. us canadiens should be more proud of our country. after all....it is a beautiful place and worth defending.... Link to Post - Back to Top 68.145.82.13
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #24 on Nov 5, 2008, 8:07pm » Quote: us canadiens should be more proud of our country. after all....it is a beautiful place and worth defending.... I agree! I know Canada currently has troops in Afganistan and lives have been lost in Canada's defense. BTW, while I may strongly disagree with some of the views espressed, I hope my comments do not come across as viewing these comments as idiotic (as I do not think this), as I have a few friends and a niece that also hold opposing views to me that I still respect/love. ( I just they're crazy, No just kidding! ) So to both Brenda and Renee, I hope you undersatnd that I value your friendship as much today as I did on Monday. Carl « Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008, 8:10pm by Carl » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
brenda Senior Member member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 358 Location: Aurora, CO Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #25 on Nov 5, 2008, 8:09pm » And to add to what Bill said...I don't think it is an arguement per say just everyone's opinions.I also hope nobody looks down upon me because I have different opinions then most on here. I can honestly say even though I may not agree I don't hold that against anybody or think differently about them and I hope they can say the same about me. I think friends (which is what I consider you all) should be able to discuss all subjects and listen openly (I know I do) without judgement. Link to Post - Back to Top 71.208.144.16
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #26 on Nov 5, 2008, 8:12pm » Nov 5, 2008, 8:09pm, brenda wrote: And to add to what Bill said...I don't think it is an arguement per say just everyone's opinions.I also hope nobody looks down upon me because I have different opinions then most on here. I can honestly say even though I may not agree I don't hold that against anybody or think differently about them and I hope they can say the same about me. I think friends (which is what I consider you all) should be able to discuss all subjects and listen openly (I know I do) without judgement. I agree! Carl « Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008, 8:13pm by Carl » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
brenda Senior Member member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 358 Location: Aurora, CO Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #27 on Nov 5, 2008, 8:14pm » Nov 5, 2008, 8:07pm, Carl wrote: Quote: us canadiens should be more proud of our country. after all....it is a beautiful place and worth defending.... I agree! I know Canada currently has troops in Afganistan and lives have been lost in Canada's defense. BTW, while I may strongly disagree with some of the views espressed, I hope my comments do not come across as viewing these comments as idiotic (as I do not think this), as I have a few friends and a niece that also hold opposing views to me that I still respect/love. ( I just they're crazy, No just kidding! ) So to both Brenda and Renee, I hope you undersatnd that I value your friendship as much today as I did on Monday. Carl I guess we were on the same wave length here Carl. Link to Post - Back to Top 71.208.146.105
brenda Senior Member member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 358 Location: Aurora, CO Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #28 on Nov 5, 2008, 8:16pm » Nov 5, 2008, 8:12pm, Carl wrote: Nov 5, 2008, 8:09pm, brenda wrote: And to add to what Bill said...I don't think it is an arguement per say just everyone's opinions.I also hope nobody looks down upon me because I have different opinions then most on here. I can honestly say even though I may not agree I don't hold that against anybody or think differently about them and I hope they can say the same about me. I think friends (which is what I consider you all) should be able to discuss all subjects and listen openly (I know I do) without judgement. I agree! Carl And with that my friends...I have no more to add here. It is nice to have serious discussions sometimes. Link to Post - Back to Top 71.208.123.203
goldenpuon Distinguished Member member is offline I'm gonna eat you!! Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 763 Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #29 on Nov 5, 2008, 8:18pm » No, your comments are fine. I hope my phone call abou tkids teasing didn't worry you too much. It's very hard but I've been through these things before. As for creativity and our opposing views on the presidental candidates, just imagine if we were all clones. Then we would have trouble electing people for office. We'll all have the same views so it would be extremely boring plus if there was a need for a change, not only would all of us be stuck in our ways but we might not survive as a nation. I know some of us don't like all this arguement and stress with the future of our nation but if we decided to stick to having one opinion, we'd get bored fast. Plus you never know how a person will be for Presidnet until they're in office. You can get hints by how they handle things and present themselves but you never knwo how they will be as the real thing. You never know until you try. « Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008, 8:19pm by goldenpuon »

Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #30 on Nov 5, 2008, 8:31pm » Quote: No, your comments are fine. I hope my phone call abou tkids teasing didn't worry you too much. It's very hard but I've been through these things before. Well it does worry me (the heartbreak in your voice was sad to me), but do not take this a reason to be alone, being worried means I do care and will continue to pray Carl Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
goldenpuon Distinguished Member member is offline I'm gonna eat you!! Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 763 Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #31 on Nov 5, 2008, 8:56pm » Thank you. I also get very tense with school work or even my fish when they are sick. I have honestly been through things like this since my first meltdowns in 3rd grade but I rarely give up on anything. Take my gardes for example, sometimes they stress me and fustrate me to the point of feeling like I'm going over the edge yet I continue to try hard no matter what with encouragement from my parents to get lower grades. That is not good either. It is the OCD I have. I also see things in black and white and that causes my a lot of stress. However, I am pretty used to it. I have less breaks downs (at least school work related) than in the past and am not very depressed considering what I've been through. I was and am still very upset about this but I still see reason to go on. I just hope someday thinsg will be easier... Not to say everything is fine, I am still not at my best now, I just don't want you to be too worried. Link to Post - Back to Top 69.216.115.144 Goldfish rock!!!
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #32 Yesterday at 2:58pm » Some scary times! The stock market continues to fall (with the media running cover for the real reasons), and as most know the those that invest in the stock market are investing or divesting based on the future, NOT CURRENT TIMES. I know what was left in my retirement I closed today (I had already withdrawn much), knowing that the coming business climate is likely to only get worse. BUT what is even less known to many is the paper market. I have collected paper over the years as a way to supplement my income and taken this to the large Sonoco Mill in LA. Anyway I am trying to figure out the best course of action for my business/family and I am planning to spend less time with my business and information site research and thought I should check paper prices; to my horror it has gone from $130 per ton to $50 per ton since the last time I checked two weeks ago, it has not been this low since the 1990s under Clinton ($40 per ton). What many may not know is that this company buys scrap paper to turn into shipping tubes/boxes that are sold to businesses, this company buys paper based on FUTURE needs of paper for business, and since most goods are shipped via boxes these days (including internationally) this commodity is very much driven by what experts see as the real future of business in the coming years. What is also scary is that nasty calls, emails are already on the increase with a person accusing us of being dishonest for charging an extra $1 for phone orders (it adds 15 plus minutes to process a phone order AND we are charged a higher fee due to risks incurred). This fee does not even begin to cover the actual cost to process such an order when the order is small which most are. We try and explain this on our shipping page. Anyway I am worried that the climate of anti small business is only going to get worse. I agree with Jon's point as to how the purse strings of the government are controlled by Congress, however with Reid and Pelosi in control along with Obama much of their socialist agenda may pass. Even more to the point and most worry some to me is that the President does set a tone as I saw in both the 90s and 80s and the tone reflects on how people spend their money and treat others including small businesses I was hoping the paper market would hold up, but I am screwed here as well. Carl Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
jonv Administrator member is online Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 368 Karma: 9	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #33 Yesterday at 3:09pm » Don't get down on the call Carl. You can't please everyone and if you know you did everything you could and you aren't the kind of person to cheat anyone, then to hell with them. Yes a business always takes a hit in that case, but longevity I think is the key. I still say and don't really care whatever Obama promises because the Congress will be the ones to draft it. If they draft something poopty, maybe Americans should stop beating the hell out of the President for that and start asking our Congress people, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING? This is what I sent you to congress for?? I was actually just thinking to myself that Anti Christ thing the other day before you posted that Carl and I'm relieved now to know I'm not the only one that thought this. I'm sure history is replete with cases of false accusations, but I can't think of a better time for this to be truthful. Looking at the state of the world and the so called need for change in the USA, this guy's promises really seem to hit the mark on what the prophesized Anti-Christ is supposed to do. I doubt we can actually stop these things from happening, but if we start seeing records in peace around the world, remember this much. Part of that prophesy says, it will be a leader that has strong influence and will bring about an era of peace unknown in recent times, and he will re-enter the temple. If Obama starts playing around in Isreal and going to visit there, I'm going to prepare as if the end is comming. Link to Post - Back to Top 68.196.118.128
goldenpuon Distinguished Member member is offline I'm gonna eat you!! Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 763 Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #34 Yesterday at 6:56pm » It is really bad that the price of recycled paper is going down. I hope that this is not a result of Obama being elected. Though Bush is still in President until Obama takes office so it could have something to do with that though I'd say it's more likely something more indirect like with paper manufacters or something related to that (though I may very well be wrong, it is just a guess). I honestly hope Obama starts some policies to help small businnesses. I see so many family owned specialty fish stores go out of businness and I find it annoying that cahain stores like Petsmart and Pet Supplies Plus get all the customers. The people at specialty fish stores tend to be more knowledgabe and passionate about fish than people working at the chain stores. The fact that chain stores will hire just about anyone with fish knowledge I'd say is part of the problem. A lot of times someone will ask and question and they will not know or give completely false info. Maybe that is why there is so much misinformation in the aquarium business. Whatever Obama does, I hope he will get things right with the economy and help get the country back on track. Our nation is really in a downstate now. I also hope Congress shapes up too since the President does not decide everything, Congress must also approve it. Link to Post - Back to Top 69.216.103.114 Goldfish rock!!!
brenda Senior Member member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 358 Location: Aurora, CO Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #35 Yesterday at 7:36pm » It is funny you guys mentionthe anti-christ thing because even though I supported Obama the thought did cross mind. Just a lot of the similarities. Link to Post - Back to Top 71.208.154.14
goldenpuon Distinguished Member member is offline I'm gonna eat you!! Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 763 Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #36 Yesterday at 8:01pm » What is the anti-Christ? I've never heard of it/ Link to Post - Back to Top 69.216.103.114 Goldfish rock!!!
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #37 Yesterday at 8:40pm » Yesterday at 8:01pm, goldenpuon wrote: What is the anti-Christ? I've never heard of it/ The "False Messiah" who comes as Satans version of Jesus near the end times. Many have already called him the Messiah such as Louis Farrakhan which is part of biblical prophesy, most ly from the book of Daniel, but also Revelation and Ezekiel There are scary similarities, but I am NOT saying he is, but if it turned out he was I also would not be surprises based on so many similarities to the prohesies including how many around him seem to literally worship him (like Oprah Winfrey). I also know that the Israel National Blog that I subscribe to noted that Israel is taking no chances with his election and that the 7 nations that would harm Israel have all come to pass, the last being Germany which according to prophesy would be the nation that over threw Rome , which the Barbarians of Germany did around 1500 years ago (give or take a century). The question is whom the next power will be is the question, my understanding is that it will be from the north, despite all of Irans saber rattling. However my reading of the book of Daniel (chapter 7) seems to rule out Obama, but then I am not a biblical expert either. I do feel that it is the Armies of the north indicated in Ezekiel that will begin the final attack on Israel 3.5 years after the Anti Christ comes to power. All the ancient nations indicated in Ezekiel are in present day Russia and its southern alies, and Putin (the leader of Russia) just today declared he will remain as the ruler of Russia possible for life. And considering Obams ignorance in dealing with this thug (based on his previous comments), it also fits the biblical prophesy. See this map: http://www.lastday.info/map.html Carl « Last Edit: Yesterday at 8:43pm by Carl » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
jonv Administrator member is online Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 368 Karma: 9	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #38 Yesterday at 9:30pm » I hear you Carl and nice Bible follow ups, and would like to say those of non Catholic beliefs, there is no alienation in this forum, it's just a few of us discussing from our points of views is all. Farrakhan is a joke in my opinion and I never took anything he said seriously just as that Reverand pal of Obama's. It's in what goes on in the rest of the world that I'll be watching. I really doubt there is anything any of us little people might be able to do against such a huge figure, of course, should it turn out to be true, I dunno if taking him out would solve it. We'll just have to see what this guy does and how he does it is all. I'd have to assume this Anti-Christ though wouldn't be an idiot and would certainly have to know warnings of his comming have been put out, so as Jesus also said, he'll come like a thief in the night. I take that to mean like little tiny things most people wouldn't give second thought to until it's at a point in time when little could be done anyways. Link to Post - Back to Top 68.196.118.128
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #39 Yesterday at 10:33pm » Quote: I hear you Carl and nice Bible follow ups, and would like to say those of non Catholic beliefs, there is no alienation in this forum, it's just a few of us discussing from our points of views is all. Thanks Jon and I second your point and also want to emphasize that I am not trying to say Obama is the Anti Christ, only that there are striking similarities IMO. I think Israel's worry is not that he is the Anti-Christ, but that he will do nothing while Iran or Russia try and destroy her. Quote: Farrakhan is a joke in my opinion Yes, a dangerous joke in my view. Maybe we can bounce this thread into another, and maybe Theoden will be along, this is his specialty. Carl « Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:34pm by Carl » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
8 in the Corner Moderator member is offline Bozo Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 186 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Karma: 13 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #40 Today at 12:07pm » To whom it may concern, I know I said I would not debate politics here in EA, but I would hate to think that all this Obama hatred (yes it is hatred) slowly leaking into our forum was just because he is black. He is a breath of fresh air in the good old boy politics and the "powers that be" are terrified of him and doing everything they can to turn people off to him. I am a pretty good judge of a person, and from what I see and hear from him, he is an average person who came up the hard way and has succeeded. Many people will hate him for that. He loves his family and has associated with people that maybe he shouldn't have. I know I have. I, myself, would never make it into public office, but I only have the welfare of our country and its' people in my heart. Very few people in the US can say they have made no mistakes in their associations with others. Racism and fear are what drove people to hang blacks in the old south and they would still be doing it if they thought they could get away with it. The hatred has turned to character assasinations by false accusations and what ifs instead of actual murder. All this crap about the anti christ is just Republican attack rhetoric designed to keep people from voting for him. Well, the election is over. The good old boys lost. Big oil will not tell the president how to make policy for at least 4 years. However, the damage that has been done over the last 8 years will take a looonnnng time to repair. Anyway, according to the Bible, wasn't the anti christ supposed to be born in Europe or the middle east and not the USA? The anti christ is more than likely Osama Bin Laden. He wants everyone to bow to him, kill anyone who doesn't believe in his brand of extremist religion and to control everyone with fear and hatred of others. Or maybe the Catholic church as a unit is the anti christ.... I think this thread should be somewhere else, and not in an aquatic forum at all. If you do anything at all with it, Carl, I would suggest giving it a day or two and then eliminating it altogether. Politics and religion should not be discussed among friends or at least in an aquatic forum. John Link to Post - Back to Top 76.241.77.47 I have the world's largest collection of seashells. I keep it on all the beaches of the world...perhaps you've seen it.
jonv Administrator member is online Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 368 Karma: 9	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #41 Today at 12:30pm » You have a very good point John and I think maybe we should lock this or move it to a blog instead of in the forum. I agree now that I see what you are saying on that aspect. I personally just don't trust the guy. It's nothing to do about race. My ex-wife is Black and I know for a fact that the whole aspect of racism goes both ways, something in my personal experiences, many African Americans are not willing to admit or embrace. Such as the time that I was at a training school and overheard an instructor no less, on the civillian side that had a business commenting how he'd hire the token "Whitey" LOL I'm not offended or surprised. Racism breeds Racism. It's not something anyone wakes up one day and just says, let me hate this group or that group. It's taught in my opinion. For me, my distrust of Obama is not race related on any level. I think he's too young and inexperienced to handle the things when the really tough stuff gets going. You're whole point however is correct in what happens when Racism comes into play as I said, I have seen it and know that it cuts both ways. I personally would find a kick if anyone thought I was racist. My first wife was black, my current one is Indonesian, the first girl I ever liked was Hawaiian, the first girl I kissed was Puerto Rican, my daughters mother is white. That's about as mixed as you can get in my life experiences LOL. I'm not attacking anything back you're saying 8, in fact I think what you are saying is good and should be said. Your point here is a good one and I'm listening. Just wanted to clear up my end that my views of Obama are certainly not race driven in any means. I fear his upbringing in an Islamic Nation and what that could mean in the USA. Yes Bush which I think too many people equate Bush means Repulican and screwed over McCain, did mess up this economy and way of life. What I find funny is if this guy was so unpopular, why was any impeachement processes never formally written up on the guy? Clinton, as popular as he was got it drawn up. I find that odd and weird. I don't see anything wrong with exchange of views but if things become a detractor or hinder the forum, yeah, something has to be done. I agree with all you are saying John and I think that if we all want to discuss things on this topic, maybe moving it to blog is the better thing to do here and not in the forum. Sorry about my lapse in judgement on the postings. Link to Post - Back to Top 68.196.118.128
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #42 Today at 1:06pm » Quote: I think this thread should be somewhere else, and not in an aquatic forum at all. If you do anything at all with it, Carl, I would suggest giving it a day or two and then eliminating it altogether. Politics and religion should not be discussed among friends or at least in an aquatic forum. I agree with this point more than anything else and will follow through with this after allowing for oothers to add points of view opposite mine so as to not appear to have the last word Quote: I am a pretty good judge of a person, and from what I see and hear from him, he is an average person who came up the hard way and has succeeded. Many people will hate him for that. He loves his family and has associated with people that maybe he shouldn't have. I know I have. I, myself, would never make it into public office, but I only have the welfare of our country and its' people in my heart. Very few people in the US can say they have made no mistakes in their associations with others. Racism and fear are what drove people to hang blacks in the old south and they would still be doing it if they thought they could get away with it. The hatred has turned to character assasinations by false accusations and what ifs instead of actual murder. I disagree with this assesment, as it is no more hatred than the Bush hatred that has been going on for 8 years, only focusing on his faults (which I will no argue are many) As to the being black comment, this has nothing at all to do with it, as Jon commented my ex was Hawaiin too and a good friend in LA is married to a black lady and bothe voted for McCain. As to Good ole boy politics, Bush and Cheney in particular (who I would not argue is a Horse's behind) practiced this, HOWEVER Obama has already appointed a Chief of Staff that shows no change in direction here (he also has some execs from Google on the short list of economic advisors, the same Google that is extremely anti small business and as far from center as you can get in American Politics) Back to the race aspect, this is the ONE positive I see in his election (& I know others that do not trust him, but feel similar). It is cool to see other than a white man as president, but then I would rather it have been Condeleza Rice (but like Palin she has had her character assasinated by the media). I have read her bio and I really like her, and quite bluntly I cannot totally fault her for standing by Bush, even when she disgreed, I think too many person in life are ready to throw others under the bus when it is best for their own selfish needs. Unfortunately here I partly blame Bush as well for Rice's character assasination as he was a stubborn person when it came to listening to others around him other than Cheney, I too am a good judge of character (as per many others), just what I do with this "information" is my failings. I have found that you look at what a person has done or said when unscripted as a better judge of character, and in this I personally find him severely lacking (which he has actually had much help) and what scares me most about him is how much he echos persons in life that were the most evil I have dealt with (which admittedly does not make him these persons, but again character does matter IMO) Quote: All this crap about the anti christ is just Republican attack rhetoric designed to keep people from voting for him. Well, the election is over. The good old boys lost. Big oil will not tell the president how to make policy for at least 4 years. However, the damage that has been done over the last 8 years will take a looonnnng time to repair. Anyway, according to the Bible, wasn't the anti christ supposed to be born in Europe or the middle east and not the USA? The anti christ is more than likely Osama Bin Laden. He wants everyone to bow to him, kill anyone who doesn't believe in his brand of extremist religion and to control everyone with fear and hatred of others. Or maybe the Catholic church as a unit is the anti christ.... I also do not agree with "Anti Christ Rhetoric" being Republican attack rhetoric designed to keep people from voting for him as I know few who threw this reason out in the days prior to the election and I stated on a more than one occasion that he add much in common which even some of my friends who voted for him have noted this too BUT that it was VERY unlikely the Anti Christ for the reason you stated. The Biblical Prophesies do not indicate a man out of the USA, but someone from Europe or the North, however Bin Laden does not come close at all to these prohesies If you would like to delete this thread before responding, please let me know, however I do not want to delete it out of respect for others view points, as even though I may disagree with some views here (and admittedly quite passionately) I also respect others (such as You John/8) WAY too much to not allow others to respond if they feel necessary before deleting. Carl « Last Edit: Today at 2:36pm by Carl » Link to Post - Back to Top Logged 29 Years Aquarium/Pond Maintenance & Research Expereince Aquarium/Pond Information Aquarium Answers
brenda Senior Member member is offline Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 358 Location: Aurora, CO Karma: 7 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #43 Today at 2:39pm » Hi guys...I know I had said I was done here too but I guess I lied!!! I agree with you John8. I do really like Obama and I was actually very excited for our future in this country. I think his intentions are good and I feel he really cares about the working people. I don't think it is racial especially from anyone on here...Obviously america didn't care that he was black. I can guarantee that was a reason thought for some. I myself am married to a man from Africa. I found his speech Tuesday night so inspiring and felt there was really hope for change in the future. I hope I am right. Anyways John8, I really hope this didn't turn you off so much that you will leave us here. That would be heartbreaking!!! Link to Post - Back to Top 198.89.160.22
Carl Administrator member is offline Joined: Aug 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 753 Karma: 18 [ Exalt | Smite ]	Re: 2008 Election « Reply #44 Today at 4:35pm » Quote: I found his speech Tuesday night so inspiring and felt there was really hope for change in the future. I hope I am right. If I did not express it well before, I do hope you are right, as quite bluntly it would be selfish of me to hope I am right at the expense of my country. This said, there are already many signs that are bad indicators to me, and as well every time I have gone against what both my intuition and what I have investigated, I have been screwed, such as what I knew about Daniel (the person who harmed us and still stalks us), but still gave him the benefit of the doubt. In this I caught much criticism, however I STILL live my life this way and just a couple of years ago I helped (at the request of a friend) a person that I again know was not what he said he was and in the end he was the person that spread false rumors around here that have ruined my reputation, which is why I have found the turn in tone of this thread offensive who and what I have done in life since in 99% of my life I have placed others first, often at my own expense. I will continue to give Obama and others I do not trust the benefit of the doubt, but I will also keep an eye open as well.